why is this a scroll box? it would be far more readable as just a regular article

I'm guessing it was copy-pasted from another site. hashtalk 10:01, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


This would be better split into more manageable paragraphs instead of one huge one.  Fw190a8 (talk · contr) 22:03, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

The difficulty with cleaning up this page is that some of the sources are wrong or contradictory. E.G. I'm sure some source claims that Mourngrym was Aumark's replacement but Mourngrym supposedly became Lord of Shadowdale in 1353 and Aumark didn't leave until 1356 (for the Luskan invasion of Ruathym). Also the GHotR says that Lyran attacked Shadowdale in 1356 though he supposedly attacked while Doust Sulwood was still Lord which was at least 3 years before this. The older sources say Lyran was named Jyordhan's successor in 1345 (the beginning of the Time of No Lords) and was executed upon his return to Melvaunt in 1356. So which source do we believe? Did Lyran return home immediately upon his defeat? How long did Mourngrym actually spend ADVENTURING with the Knights? Lots of questions, no satisfactory answers. Needs more research. -hashtalk 12:31, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

The conflicts seem to mostly come from FR7 which most of this article appears to be based on. Ed wasn't directly involved with this work (which makes me wonder why our citation template for it claims that he was the primary designer), nor was he credited with any work on Heroes' Lorebook which was supposed to update FR7 long after it went out of print. Heroes' Lorebook seems a slightly more solid source but contains much fewer dates. I'm thinking of taking the information as solid but the dates as false, then sticking to the Grand History unless it happens to still make no sence, whereupon I'll look for a secondary confirmation source (probably not FR7 though). -hashtalk 14:20, June 26, 2013 (UTC)