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The part on this page that reads

Not coincidentally, these values are among those held by most paladins, many of whom are more than likely to follow The Triad,[1] as the patron of paladins Torm is one-third of the coalition.[citation needed]

seems to belong in the article on the Triad, more than it does here. Is it true that most paladins are followers of one of the Triad faiths? What about Helm? (I'm not an FR expert - this is a genuine inquiry, not rhetorical.) Cold Blast 02:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Paladins can dedicate themselves to any god within one alignment step of Lawful Good (i.e Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral or Neutral Good, with the exception of Sune, who also sponsors paladins despite being a Chaotic Good deity. I would say however that Paladins of Tyr are more common than Torm or Helm, not to say that there aren't quite a few paladins of those faiths as well. hashtalk
Personally I'm not happy with the statement that Cold Blast has quoted. p. 254 of the FRCS does not state that many paladins are more than likely to follow the Triad, and I'm not sure that Torm's mention is relevant here either. I'd be glad to see that whole bit removed from the article. Fw190a8 12:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


Death Edit

Someone has raised a question as to whether Tyr is described killing Helm five years after he died? Owdar 21:39, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

Not described in detail, the gods deaths are rarely descriebed that way (some exceptions for example in the avatar series), however it is at least described in the empyrian oddosey series that the outsiders themselves gets the message from Tyr himself or something as a message or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.66.89 (talkcontribs) January 4, 2010

I just tweaked the greater deity article after another unregistered user made note that Tyr is dead. I did so before visiting this article, which references the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, which does indeed say he's dead (so I'll be undoing my edit). However, it should be noted that the Campaign Guide came out in 2008 and that The Crystal Mountain came out almost a year later, and that later source says that Torm willingly gave up his divinity to Torm. I only have a digital copy of the book, so can't give a page number, but it's about two-thirds through the novel. The exact quote is:

"Indeed, it only happened this morning," the hound warrior said. "Tyr is abdicating his godhood. He has granted Torm his deific power and counseled his followers to offer their allegiances to the True One. Ilmater has returned to the House to aid him in this transfer."

I grant that Tyr abdicating his godhood could mean he is dead, but it could also mean he became a mortal or immortal and thus, still alive. I'm not going to edit this article since, obviously, his being alive is as yet unproven, but just figured I'd mention it here. 68.36.46.141 06:42, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

According to the Fifth Edition Handbook, Tyr is once more amongst the living. Page 271 lists him as being a god that players could worship in the Forgotten Realms.

65.121.187.138 23:07, October 3, 2014 (UTC)Talgrath

I'm inclined to wait until the inevitable 5e Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide to make such changes. The list includes several other dead deities, and technically is not wrong - those are gods in the Forgotten Realms, even if they're dead in the present. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:19, October 3, 2014 (UTC)
I was actually thinking we might want to remove the entire category of "dead deities," seeing as how A) it doesn't fit with our "outside of the timeline" perspective and B) as 3e, 4e, and now 5e have all shown, "death" isn't necessarily a permanent characteristic for a deity. Niirfa-sa (talk) 23:27, October 3, 2014 (UTC)
I agree with Niirfa... since the wiki has been taken out of the timeline... all the deities are alive or are dead. Let's see if Admins BadCat or Movie agree :) - Darkwynters (talk) 00:02, October 4, 2014 (UTC)
As an added note... we do not have a Dead inhabitants category, so do we need a Dead deities category? - Darkwynters (talk) 00:04, October 4, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, we should remove the "dead deities" jump-cat. It's always wrong in one edition or another. —Moviesign (talk) 02:54, October 4, 2014 (UTC)
I've previously argued that Mystra being alive, dead, and alive again means she should still be in the "Dead deities" category. But yeah, it's an increasingly meaningless distinction. Let's be rid of it. That's four in favour. I can have the bot eliminate the category from the deities there, so I'll take care of it later. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:28, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
Do we need the Dead deity list? - Darkwynters (talk) 16:15, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
My inclination is to say no, we don't need it if we don't have the category "dead deities" anymore. I think we can just put every deity in their respective pantheon template and let the articles explain when they're active/alive and when they're inactive/dead. Niirfa-sa (talk) 18:35, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Hammers of GrimjawEdit

I do not have my sourcebooks handy, but there appears to be two sections on these guys... I suspect the second entry might be plagiarized, please someone check, so we do not have duplicates, thanks :) Darkwynters (talk) 17:40, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

It looks like a properly rephrased version of their entry in Champions of Valor: same information and arrangement, different wording. A Google search doesn't show another. It's good.
Anyway, that info already appears at Hammers of Grimjaws (also good), and only brief summaries are given here, so it could be removed from this article. -- BadCatMan (talk) 00:22, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

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