Forgotten Realms Wiki


12,433 Edits since joining this wiki
February 18, 2012

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By sourceEdit

BadCat, Happy New Years :)

Please check out Daranios talk page and let us know what you think about Inhabitants or Creatures by source... it is cool, but seems like a lot of work... I am on the fence right now. Thanks :) - Darkwynters (talk) 18:16, January 2, 2014 (UTC)


My name is Jacob Blackmon, and I am an artist. I was recently informed that your wiki page for Black Pudding ( was using a piece of my art. (

Normally, I would not mind; I try make my art available for general use, so long as I am asked beforehand. However, in this regard, I was never approached or contacted for permission to use the art.

I ask for the art to please be removed.

Thank you.


```` Jacob Blackmon

I'm very sorry about this. One old user uploaded a lot of images without permission of the owners. We're still cleaning them up. I've now deleted the image. Apologies again. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:47, January 25, 2014 (UTC)


Hello BadCatMan! I've removed the plagiarised content of the pages mentioned... Thanks!... :)

Great! Thank you for working on it. Feel free to add back in your own versions of the content. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:06, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Copyedit MasterEdit

Hey there BadCatMan,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the copyediting you do on my articles (and others). I never realise how many mistakes I make, despite my efforts. Your attention to detail is very much appreciated.--Eli the Tanner (talk) 23:31, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! No worries, we all make mistakes. Occasionally I go back and find something shockingly wrong — errors in the grammar aren't clear with all the wiki code in the way, so another pair of eyes is always good. Most of my copy-editing around here is just minor things, like making links or fussy little style tweaks only someone like me would notice or care about. I just go over a couple of articles when I catch up at the end of the week or so. It lets me see what others are working on. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:46, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Hi BadCatMan. Thank you very much for your help and understanding. My knowledge of English is really not at altitude, but I think that it does not become an obstacle to the fact that, i want to help this wiki. I have enough time to work every day. In the future i will try to improve spelling, and add more new articles . Thanks you again.

Question about the game Dungeons & Dragons Arena of War Edit

Copied from Darkwynters talk page...

Hello Darkwynters,

I had a question about this game, Dungeons & Dragons Arena of War. You see from what i could find about it, the game appears to be set in the Forgotten Realms. It also seems to be officially sanctioned by wizards of the coast. Here are some webpages you can use to verify.

I have downloaded and played the game. It is like a touch screen pin ball game. I won't go into the gameplay to much, but the special monthly (at least I think they are monthly) challenges are somehow connected to The Sundering (series). One of the past challenges was called "the Red Hunt of the Chosen." I think it was connected to The Reaver (novel). The Red Wizards of Thay in the novel tried to capture Chosen. The games event centered around specific locations the Wizards were working (capturing Chosen) in the Realms. Would this be relevant information for the wiki? Do you know how I might cite it?

I am currently playing this months challenge. The objective is to prevent the Shade Enclave from excavating and raising the ancient Netheril city, Xinlenal. If you could direct me in how to use this information, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you, (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 03:37, March 23, 2014 (UTC))
BadCat... thoughts? - Darkwynters (talk) 06:38, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Ches 30 Edit

I get it but why 1576? -hashtalk 13:50, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Just a random number from the future to be a bit of a give-away. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:07, April 1, 2014 (UTC)


Greetings, kind admin! I am planning on adding info about NWN 2 (since there is a lack of it), but I am not certain how the page layout should look like. Could you review the page I made? Sincerely, Energy X 17:57, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

Welcome aboard! Sure, I'll try to look it over tonight, make some changes, and give you some feedback. — BadCatMan (talk) 07:10, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see now what was missing. But, what about any in-game content, like what quests is he affilated to? Also, what infobox should be used for quests? Energy X 12:07, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I'll work on a response and shift the conversation to your talk page. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:20, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Now I understand. Well, I use just an article as a model to create other pages. Hm, I have a couple of images that present action (like Amie casting a spell in the quest Tourney of Talent). Since you don't focus on quests, should it be added to the character page, or should I avoid it entirely? Lastly, what should I do for image of locations (like West Harbor), a map or...? Energy X 13:59, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Have a look at some I've worked over, like Georg Redfell or Amie Fern.
Images are fine. You can put them on the character page, with a caption like "Amie competing at the Tourney of Talent." And maps are fine for locations. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:14, May 8, 2014 (UTC)


Hm, what should be done about the info where you can make a choice? For example: Lewy Owns can bribe the PC or the PC can dispel the magic from his pig.

Also, is it *really* necessary to insert every category? Georg Redfell, as an example, is an inhabitant of West Harbor. That means he is also an inhabitant of Northwest Faerun, of Faerun and Toril. I'm just saying that it is obvious he is an inhabitant of those regions if just the "Inhabitants of West Harbor" category is added. Energy X 10:25, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

First, that's a common problem when dealing with adventure modules and video games, as the outcome of some events depends on player actions and aren't set in stone or continuity. Generally, I'd recommend leaving the outcome open, just as you did at Lewy Jons' hog. "Orlen had doubts and tasked the Kalach-Cha to investigate." — That's perfect. Whether the Kalach-Cha did or not, or what they did about it is unknown. You could go further and suggest what Lewy would do: e.g., "Lewy was prepared to bribe the Kalach-Cha to avoid being exposed."
You could also add a note to state that, as it is a video game, the events are officially unresolved and describe the outcomes in an out-of-character way that doesn't impact the article. I did this at The Green Lady, for example.
Later, you might want to overhaul the mammoth Kalach-Cha page. That doesn't handle this issue very well, with a lot of vague "would" statements and "this or that" options.
Second, yes, I agree, it is very redundant. I wouldn't have chosen it, but the system is solidly entrenched now. Basically, the idea is, if I want to find some NPC who lives along the Sword Coast North or in northwest Faerun, we can have a one-stop spot for all of them. In other words, I might want to find a certain NPC who lives somewhere in the North, or I might want to find someone who lives specifically in West Harbor. The idea is to have all those categories completely filled. Maybe one day there'll be code to automatically categorise pages, but until then, it's manual.
You can copy categories from other pages, and it becomes automatic after a while. Or, if you miss any or can't think what other categories to add, then don't worry about it. User:Darkwynters is very good at putting old and new pages in all possible categories. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:01, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
Good. Well, what about those alternative sections? I added some to Daeghun Farlong, do they need the references as well, or...?
Lastly, should I keep at anything else during the playthrough? So far my "tasks" are to create the character and location articles. Energy X 21:15, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
It's a good idea to have references for each section and/or paragraph, particularly when an article has multiple sources. That is, Daeghun Farlong has two, so which game does the "Activities" section come from? You could put an NWN2 ref there to make it clear it's all the from that game.
In addition to locations and characters, other things you could make articles out of, or add information to existing articles are creatures like bladelings, duergar, githyanki, and lizardfolk; events like the Harvest Fair or Harvest Festival (whichever it is) with all the events and contests described there; and items like notable weapons (Daeghun's bow is too generic a weapon, but one that's special or magical is worth making an article on), products and foods like Harbor Mead. You could also add the history to 1374 DR and the days of the year (found at Category:Calendar dates) events happen on.
Another thing is the Neverwinter Nights 2 page itself. You could add to that, or make an index of everything referenced in the game, like at City of the Spider Queen or Dungeon magazine 75. An index can tell a reader what games and novels and sourcebooks they can find things in. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:23, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Don't forget!Edit

Just a friendly reminder that the Vast needs a summary for the June {{Featured article}} slot. :) —Moviesign (talk) 03:37, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

I haven't. :) I was going to do it on the weekend, but came down with Talona's own cold and don't feel like rereading and summarising at the best of times. I'll try to get it done. — BadCatMan (talk) 10:10, May 23, 2014 (UTC)


Hello BadCatMan

Hey, I noticed that on the page Osco Salisbuck. The character's last name is misspelled - it should be Salibuck without the s. You can find this in the book Blackstaff Tower page 124, and in other family members of the same last name on page 209. I can't figure out how to change the title on this page - could you please help? Thank you! (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 04:06, June 1, 2014 (UTC))

I'm afraid I don't have the book, but thanks for spotting it. Anyone can rename a page: in the Monobook skin, there's a tab up the top saying "Rename"; in the Oasis/default skin, it pops up if you click the triangle next to the Edit button. Either way, it brings up the option to change the name, give a reason, and produce a redirect if desired. One other thing is to also correct links on other pages; they can be found with "What links here" in Monobook. So, I've done all that, it's now Osco Salibuck. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:23, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 17:29, June 1, 2014 (UTC))

The Big 10KEdit

Somewhere in the past week you hit the 10,000 edits mark. Congratulations on the milestone :) —Moviesign (talk) 12:04, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I spent ages watching my edit-count wanting to see it tick over. :o Then I checked in and discovered it already had. :( It's too slow to update, I think. By then, it seemed a bit late to celebrate, and you and Darkwynters were already well past it with the amazing amount of work you two do. I decided not to draw attention to myself. ;) — BadCatMan (talk) 12:11, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea how that top number is calculated, and I've tried to figure it out. The number in the user box is the grand total of all your edits on this wiki, but the big number at the top is not the same even for editors that have been inactive for a long time, so it's not a caching problem. Looking at the breakdown of edits, I can't even come up with plausible arithmetic to compute it. Regardless, it's a personal milestone and now you can take pride in quantity as well as quality. :) —Moviesign (talk) 13:22, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
Congrats, BadCat, my man :) - Darkwynters (talk) 17:24, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
Huh. I use the Monobook skin, which doesn't show a second edit count. There may be a difference from making edits on pages that are then deleted — their histories are lost and the record of a user's edits with them. Though, IIRC, the userbox number normally goes down when I've deleted pages, but it's higher than the big number. Maybe they changed the way they are calculated.
My bot is also responsible for a few thousand edits. :) Automatic and manual. I don't know the exact number, because some have been deleted. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:48, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Year pages Edit

Have I missed out on another new trick on the history articles? I don't want to create more work for you. -hashtalk 10:26, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

The main thing is sorting the years pages so they come out in order in the categories. The existing method is to add 35,000 to each year number to get them to sort properly. I hacked some code to automatically compute that:
[[Category:Years| {{#expr:{{#replace:{{PAGENAME}}| DR|}}+35000}}]]
[[Category:Age of Humanity| {{#expr:{{#replace:{{PAGENAME}}| DR|}}+35000}}]]
You can just copy-paste the code at the bottom of each page to make it work automatically. Otherwise, it's my regular check-up: links rather than bold names, and me preferring spaces on the year pages and punctuation before superscript references. — BadCatMan (talk) 10:36, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Ah yes, I recall you writing that as a blog comment when I last attempted to work on the roll and realized that it wasn't being categorized right. Gotta write that down somewhere so I'll remember it. Thanks. -hashtalk 10:58, June 3, 2014 (UTC)


Hm, if there is an option to insert trivia, where should it be listed and under what headline (is it "Trivia" or "Behind the scenes")? Energy X 14:46, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

I suppose that depends on the kind of trivia you had in mind. If it's in-universe information, it can probably be squeezed into some standard section or another, or you can make a new section if you think it necessary. For the most part, the standard section headings are recommended but optional.
If it's out-of-universe, real-world information, then we'd prefer it go into an Appendix section, that is, outside the main article (which is for in-universe information). Say:
* Your real-world trivia.

And etc.
But go with what you think is best, and the rest of us can look at it later. — BadCatMan (talk) 15:07, June 3, 2014 (UTC)


hello BadCatMan, this is Underscore7. i am having trouble with citing a few things. on White dragons info page, the dragon names Arauthator; Arveiaturace; and Ghaulantatra are all found in The Grand History of the Realms. i am updating the pages that the names lead to, and citing them all as best as i know how, but i cannot guarantee i am doing it correctly... i know you probably have better things to do than check over my work when i add it, but i would appreciate it. Underscore7 (talk) 22:48, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Under, I have looked through the entire book and can find no mention of these dragons... I did find a Dragon Magazine article about Arauthator and add the info to the page... I will take another look... are you sure the info is not in the Player's Guide to Faerûn... I think I rememeber seeing a list of dragons in one of my sourcebooks. :) -Darkwynters (talk) 22:55, June 3, 2014 (UTC)
The dragon can be found on page 42 of Dragons of Faerûn :) - Darkwynters (talk) 23:06, June 3, 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it looks like you added the Grand History references by mistake. Good sources for these dragons are the "Wyrms of the North" series of articles in old Dragon magazines and updated online here, as well as Dragons of Faerun.
Look through Category:Citation templates for existing citation templates, such as {{Cite book/Dragons of Faerûn}} and {{Cite web/Wyrms of the North: Arveiaturace}}.
If you have any specific questions, just ask one of us. Otherwise, we admins will check through your work as we have the time. Welcome back! — BadCatMan (talk) 13:04, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

External linksEdit

I am not certain to leave those external links. Many pages are missing at the NWN 2 Wiki, and, considering their lack of activity, I doubt they will make pages. I can only say that whoever wants to see those pages at NWN 2 Wiki will get nothing and could criticise us for that. Energy X 15:19, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

What's lacking at another wiki isn't really our problem. The link still makes our pages look complete, and still leads readers to another wiki that may be of interest (not that we want them to stop reading here!). They can search for a topic there, and maybe find it on another page. But mainly, it's future-proofing: they may not have a page now, but if/when they do, our page will be ready for it. Then we won't need to check our NWN2 pages and update them later on.
If you wanted to, you could repeat your NWN2 work at the NWN 2 Wiki, and fill up both sides. Our styles may be different, but the game-focused wiki should make it easier to discuss the different outcomes of events. — BadCatMan (talk) 07:43, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
It would be much better if that Wiki merges with ours, to have a complete guide. I'll continue to add the links, but I am not comfortable about it... Energy X 11:10, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
As a video game–focused wiki, they can go to a lot more game mechanics, quest options, and technical stuff that would just be really jarring on a lore-focused whole-Realms wiki like this one.
If you really don't want to do it, then don't, it's still optional. I and others will come by and add the section later. I can do it with a bot even. But please just leave the section if it's already there. Anyway, by this point, you have a good set of whole-article templates for things from the game. Just copy an old article, remove or change what you need to for a new one, and leave the rest. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:22, June 6, 2014 (UTC)


BadCat, now that we are talking about assumptions... do you think we should not include info such as alignment based on a race, for example Hagarl is a doppleganger and they are neutral... so should I assume he is this alignment... your thoughts :) - Darkwynters (talk) 02:23, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

Drow are usually evil, but we have plenty of good ones. :) I'd leave out alignment information unless it was specifically stated in a stat block. — BadCatMan

User rightsEdit

Well, let's say that I am interested to become a rollback, for a start. Where would I have to apply and what are the requirements? Energy X 19:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry, NRG... I am not sure what you mean, but I will post this on High admin BadCat's page. Usually, a "rollback" is when a page is cleaned back to the last user. - Darkwynters (talk) 21:03, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I might've used the wrong term... in any case, if I'd apply for an admin, what would I need and where? Energy X 21:08, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
I figured that is what ye meant :) Well, first continue creating your wonderful pages about Neverwinter Nights 2... hmmm, here are a few ideas:
  • A high amount of edits.
  • Communication / cooperation skills.
  • Knowledge of the Realms.
  • Dedication (logging on at least once biweekly).
Maybe we should make a policy (3 admin votes, as well)... and add it to our Forgotten Realms Wiki:Administrators page... Thoughts :) Darkwynters (talk) 21:24, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
It is possible to give some solely rollback rights, independent of being an admin. A rollbacker is just the same as being a normal editor, only you're allowed to hit "rollback" in addition to "undo", flushing all edits from one user on a page back to the previous editor. It's really only useful for cleaning up after certain kinds of trolls (those who make two or more troll edits in sequence).
We haven't had a standard policy for selecting admins. For us current admins, it's been by acclaim or catching the eye of a former admin. Which was sufficient when we were rebuilding the wiki, but we're a bit more organised and developed now. Four regular admins has certainly been enough for us to patrol the wiki on a regular basis. Is another required? Too many admins means too many people trying to agree on something. :)
Being an admin isn't all it's cracked up to be. :) You get the power to delete and restore pages, rollback edits, and block trolls, but the admin has to use those powers, as well as lead and manage the wiki. It's a lot of work, and with great power come great responsibility. :) So, what I'd look for in a potential admin is:
  • Being willing to go around and clean up other pages (copy-editing, categorising, formatting, adding missing information, rewriting copied text), not just from a favourite topic, and go on one of those long editing tours.
  • Getting involved in discussions on wiki matters, like policy, style, problem solving, welcoming and helping new users.
  • Enforcing policy and style even if you disagree with it.
  • Being in it for the long-haul, say several months of regular activity (we get a lot of new users who last a month before fading away, and the admin powers have a great potential for abuse, so I'd rather reserve them for long-termers).
  • Slay a troll in single-combat. :) Basically, if you see a troll make a mess, clean it up.
Of course, an admin doesn't have to do all these things, nor do them all the time. We each have our specialities: Moviesign does code and templates, Darkwynters organisation and categories, and I do styling and editing/rewriting. But these are all things an admin would have to do on a semi-regular basis. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:12, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Wow... BadCat... I could not have said it better myself *wipes face with hanky* "Just had some dust in my eye."... I completely agree with ye!!! :) - Darkwynters (talk) 15:31, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Some say that an admin's voice can only be heard by cats, and that they have two sets of knees... all we know is, they do a damn fine job.--Eli the Tanner (talk) 19:57, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

I'm showing my age here, but the candidate in question says he is a high school senior, which means he will hopefully be starting college soon. This is a busy and important time in a young person's life and I would not expect anyone in his position to be able to maintain the attention and level of effort described eloquently above, nor would I want them to do so. I would expect them to focus on their education and dating :^D

Old fogey says: re-evaluate in six months. :) —Moviesign (talk) 21:37, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Wow... Harsh, Movie... hehe... harsh :) I agree with BadCat, we are fine in the admin department... Plus, if we were looking for admins, I would nominate either User:Eli the Tanner or User:Daranios... but WE are not looking... did you hear that the both of you... I am just saying I like your work... giving you a little ego boost... though I have not seen Daranios in a while... :) - Darkwynters (talk) 22:11, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

I have a question?Edit

Hello BadCatMan,

I have a question. Osco Salibuck is a character from the bookBlackstaff Tower (novel). However, one of his ancestors mentioned and met in ghost form inhabits Blackstaff Tower itself. This character has the same name !!!!!! If I made a page about him should it be titled Osco Salibuck the Elder or Osco the Elder? Or should I just add him to the original page in a sub paragraph? Thank you (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 03:39, June 12, 2014 (UTC))

Sorry, I forgot to respond earlier. So there are two Osco Salibucks? Okay, make a new page for the ghost Osco, a disambiguated name like Osco Salibuck (ghost) or Osco Salibuck (elder), and treat him as a different character. A sub-paragraph would just confuse matters (two characters on the same page). And only call him "the Elder" if that appears in the book. — BadCatMan (talk) 04:06, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
He has a statue that is titled Osco Salibuck the Elder, I think that should work. (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 02:14, June 17, 2014 (UTC))

Image namesEdit

Hey, are there any rules on naming images? If not, then there should be, because names like these are too long and undescriptive. Energy X 17:59, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

NRG, I completely agree... I have only uploaded two images, 2e Hill Giant and 2e Kobold, but I have renamed many of the Al-Qadim images, such as the Debbi, calling the image by edition and name... thoughts, BadCat? - Darkwynters (talk) 19:53, August 2, 2014 (UTC)
As the one whom posted that particular image I do think there is one... I think I remember rule enforcement on image names. Just to add I didn't edit the name because its the original page name for the file, I have posted some with descriptive names and some with original names... but I agree the names should be descriptive, sorry. Terrorblades - This is recorded live at 20:03, August 2, 2014 (UTC)

I've been thinking we should make a formal pictures policy, I might work on it one day. But yes, image titles should be clear and descriptive. If you take the image from a website, you may not get that, so please rename the file before you upload it. I'll go rename them. — BadCatMan (talk) 03:32, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

New Vast mapsEdit

I uploaded 3 maps that should look good in your Vast articles; thought I'd give you first crack at them. Oh, and congrats on 11,000 edits :) —Moviesign (talk) 13:19, August 24, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, they look pretty good. I kept meaning to do them myself. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:26, August 24, 2014 (UTC)

Shadow of Mordor versus tournamentEdit

Hi BadCatMan! I'm Mark, from Wikia's Community Development Team.

I'm reaching out to see if your community would like to be a part of a versus tournament we're hosting on the Shadow of Mordor wikia. It would go live in September, and we would be pitting Drizzt Do'Urden against Talion from Shadow of Mordor. The voting would live in a blog on Shadow of Mordor and we would post a button on Drizzt Do'Urden's page here encouraging your community to vote for them. On the voting blog we would link back to your wikia, and we'll be promoting the tournament around Wikia. If your community would like to be a part of the tournament, which would include the button on Drizzt Do'Urden's page as well as a link back to your community from the voting blog, please let me know by 8/29.

Thank you! Mark@Wikia (talk) 21:55, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

Well met! Thanks for thinking of us! :) I don't see why not, but I'll canvass community opinion for a day or two. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:07, August 26, 2014 (UTC)
Hi! Thanks for waiting. The adventuring band has spoken, and we're all in favour and shared ideas for sprucing the place up for it. So, we're in! — BadCatMan (talk) 12:03, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to run this by the community. I'll add the wiki to the list, and let you know once the contest is live. Mark@Wikia (talk) 21:08, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
Okay. What time do you expect to start, roughly? End of the month or earlier? We were planning to adjust our featured articles and featured images on the main page to be more of a draw to new readers. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:27, September 2, 2014 (UTC)

Planetar alignmentsEdit

That's a particularly debatable case but I agree with you in general. In fact, I was thinking about going back and changing it though I haven't decided. The main issue is that the 5e MM seems pretty clear angels are lawful good by nature, even when serving chaotic good deities and it also pretty frequently assumes the FR by default. In some cases, edition changes are a simple matter of rules switches or changes in history. Other times though, actual lore changes or retcons are involved (the change of succubi to non-specific fiends in 5e, after being changed from demons to devils in 4e, is one example).

Creature alignment's generally a pretty minor issue though so I'm inclined to agree that planetar should have both 3e and 5e alignments. It's tricky though, because the sourcebook could be saying all planetars have always been lawful good. An FR-specific source using non-LG planetars (who aren't considered unusual like fallen angels) though would probably be a good enough reason to switch the alignment back, since FR-specific sources trump generic ones. Niirfa-sa (talk) 08:52, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

And 6th will change them back, and 7th edition will them omni-altruistic... :) Retcons in D&D are always a temporary affair, so for the purpose of the wiki, I consider all such details to be restricted to their edition. That is, all planetars appearing in 5th edition sources are always Lawful Good, though planetars in 2e say are unchanged.
Ugh, having FR as the 5e core setting makes me feel sick. It destroyed Greyhawk in 3e. Every core creation will be shoehorned into the Realms whether it fits or not. :( — BadCatMan (talk) 09:02, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
For the moment I've switched it back until I can do more research. As for the core nature of FR, it's sort of Greyhawk, sort of not. The PHB and MM make mention of other settings too like Dragonlance, Eberron, and Greyhawk, but FR get clearly favorable treatment and so far all the 5e adventures have been set there. A FR-specific sourcebook is reportedly in the works though. Niirfa-sa (talk) 09:12, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. And thanks for the clarification on the settings. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:38, October 5, 2014 (UTC)


Hi Darkwynters.

I was curious about your edits to Shartana. They don't seem too necessary to me. Moving the citation doesn't alter anything in a single-source article like this. I tend to remove unused, non-applicable entries from infoboxes to save space, and we're not likely to hear from Shartana again. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:07, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

It is just my OCD... I remember when FW was online more regularly... he was a proponent of referencing everything, so we could find material which was not referenced. - Darkwynters (talk) 16:10, October 5, 2014 (UTC)
Okay. I think such minor topics are generally safe from that.
Also, you don't have to post my talk page. I see your response here. :p — BadCatMan (talk) 09:47, October 6, 2014 (UTC)


Hi, and thank-you for the welcome.

Since I'm doing some research on the Dark Maiden, I thought I'd share and update the wikis for Eilistraee and others of the Dark Seldarine.

Please let me know when I'm doing anything wrong or if I'm messing things up.

May you walk in moonlight and joyous song,

LadySilverhair (talk) 17:45, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Welcome aboard! Thanks, the drow gods are popular pages and they could do with some work. You may wish to contact User:Eli the Tanner, who's been covering City of the Spider Queen and related drow articles.
Will do. :) If you have any questions or want some advice, feel free to ask any of us regular editors and admins. — BadCatMan (talk) 07:43, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Night Mask vampire Edit

hallo, I created all the pages about the Night Masters, you are right that we don't known for sure their individual destinies but in what I read was said "the vampire are purged and THE ONLY SURVIVAL was Orbakh, that resume the name Manshoon...."; oh, english is no my mother language but in my language a purge involve brutally killing a large group of individuals (in that case vampires); also from that text (sorry now I not remember where I read) is stated that survive ONLY Orbakh/Manshoon. Is no in all case a critique, I only want to explain why I put their death - Unknown user (talk) 15:08, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Unknown user, please create an account. It is really hard to give advice or respond when you do not have a profile. - Darkwynters (talk) 16:24, November 29, 2014 (UTC)
It is true that a purge like that would probably involve a lot of killing as history shows. But it's not necessarily the case. The word "purge" has a lot of meanings. In this sense, the main meaning is to remove a bunch of people from a place or activity.
On page 116 of the FRCG, it says "The vampiric Night Masks thieves' guild was driven out long ago." 'Driven out' means they were forced to leave Westgate, not killed. It's not stated when this occurred, it could have happened any time between 1372 DR and 1479 DR. On page 284, it says "the Fire Knives purged Westgate of vampires" and "the cleansing of Westgate". Given the three phrases, it's clear that the Fire Knives forced the vampires to leave Westgate at some point. Maybe some were slain, but some could have survived and fled Westgate. Maybe none of them died. A dude like Sorenth Gorender might have been murdered by a blackmail victim years before, he could have been killed in the purge, he could have escaped the city and set up elsewhere. Or he might even still be in Westgate with a new identity, unknown to anyone.
So, without further evidence, we just don't know for sure, and it's not an accurate reading of the situation. It's better to leave it out. — BadCatMan (talk) 02:52, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yes, as said before I don't want criticize; in my mother language a purge have a more drastic meaning and the fact that Manshoon was describe as "only survivor of the purge" looked to support my opinion but sure without further evidence yours are the best option; to be clear for me they are all death or Manshoon used they in his next plans (they are his slave vampire!) but this is only my opinion

Question About Waterdeep's Population? Edit

I have a question about the population of Waterdeep. Its wiki page population is around 132,661 which is referenced to the 3.5 edition sourcebook City of Splendors: Waterdeep. I was looking at the new Waterdeep location page on web site and it shows the population of Waterdeep to be at 2,000,000 - would this be okay to add?

The page address is given here.

(TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 03:43, December 7, 2014 (UTC))

Sure. The numbers aren't too contradictory. Both City of Splendors: Waterdeep and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition make it clear that 132,661 is the population in the city-limits, but greater Waterdeep has 1,347,840 people. Obviously it's grown a bit in 4e. Go ahead and add it. — BadCatMan (talk) 03:54, December 7, 2014 (UTC)


If you want Earthfast to be seen this year, you need to write up an FA summary. Just a reminder, in case you forgot. —Moviesign (talk) 03:08, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

I figured I'd give Ilbratha a full month like the rest, then add Earthfast in for next year. I'm afraid the further I've been away from writing an article, the less inspired I am to write a summary of it. :( So, it'll be done when it's done. :) — BadCatMan (talk) 06:43, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

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