Forgotten Realms Wiki


Bureaucrat Admin
23,566 Edits since joining this wiki
February 18, 2012

To limit the length of this page, content has been relocated to the following archive pages:

Revision UndoEdit

"Undo revision 279833 by Zhentar (talk) Please don't remove valid lore without good reason"

There was good reason. The source was from 1995 and Dungeon #170 lists the Castle as completely rebuilt. That section not only isnt up to date, its unnecessary for an overview section, especially since "Places of Interest" has its own section which I was in the process of adding to when my changes were removed. I will be removing it again in the future and moving its contents in a newly created Valjevo Castle page in a history section.

Calling a tavern owner "mysterious" and the tavern itself a "great place" is subjective and while it may be "lore" in a very loose sense, it is opinion and not fact. It was changed to "popular" to be more objective.

I have no intention of removing facts from the wiki as a whole, only to move them to more appropriate areas and with citations. Obviously subjective statements, however, I have no concern in preserving.

--Zhentar (talk) 07:37, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

It's not the wiki's goal to present only an up-to-date version or current situation. Rather, the wiki's goal is to present lore at all points in history, so it may be useful in all eras of play. That's a consequence of our Remove Wiki from Timeline policy. So, we maintain the existing lore as history, rather than remove it, and then add to it with fresh history. Erasure of content isn't the solution. Instead, write it in past tense, add a date for context, then add new lore. Move it to a better location, but don't delete unless it's patently wrong or unsourceable.
You also moved some information around unnecessarily. The Cracked Crown is "The city's most expensive inn." according to The Moonsea sourcebook, but if you move that outside the citation, it's no longer clear where that information came from.
Yes, the article is untidy and cluttered, and much of this lore should go on separate articles. But the lore shouldn't be deleted out of hand until it is.
Furthermore, subjectivity isn't a concern. This is a D&D setting after all, and the wiki should be useful as such. Opinions are a thing we report on. "Mysterious" is how people view the NPC. "A haven from the tumult of the city" is how NPCs view the inn. These are facts (if that is what the adventure module truly says) that the wiki should present.
As a new member, we have to pay extra attention to what you do to ensure that it maintains and improves the wiki along the lines of our policies. Too many come in, do something strange, and disappear. Your edit summary was contradictory. You said "Added notable locations" but that's not what happened. You said "Removed superfluous text", but I don't agree it was superfluous, only faulty and/or should be on a separate page. I don't know that you intend to create a Valjevo Castle article and develop Phlan (though it would be utterly fantastic if you do). Too many new editors come in with a grand project but don't follow through. So, I can't trust a new editor will remove something one day and maybe restore it the next.
It sounds like you're taking on a huge project here. I would not recommend it as your first project. Phlan's a big, oft-used place and this is a big and cluttered article to overhaul, and there'll be too much text to shift while you learn the ropes. Instead, I recommend you start on something small and self-contained, like an article for one of those taverns, and branch out from there. Ask us if you have any questions, and, finally, welcome to the wiki. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:31, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

Back in what seems forever ago, I overhauled the Zhentil Keep page and added the majority of the content that is there now. I took a break from D&D and FR for a while and am now interested in finishing what I started. To be fair, the Zhentil Keep page itself I left unfinished (the history section is meant to get its own page for a starter) and still needs a lot of work. You recommend not starting with Phlan, yet it is the starting point for a new campaign Im going to DM, so overhauling the page while I research serves me in the long run as well. Honestly, the whole Moonsea area is needing a dedicated archivist and Im a bit miffed at seeing all this fame and fortune going to the Sword Coast while the Moonsea crumbles and my favorite city remains a sad pile of rubble. Perhaps a well documented Moonsea will inspire further development from the powers that be...

Zhentar (talk) 22:59, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

Ah! I apologise, you're not a new member, you're a returning old member. I'm afraid 2009/2010 was way before my time here, and I've not seen your name around any histories. In that case, welcome back! Anyway, things have changed quite a lot around here since then.
I didn't mean not to do Phlan at all, more that it would be better to start on a smaller article, such as a tavern or NPC from Phlan, or Valjevo Castle itself. It's easier to manage, and gives you a place to put lore that's unnecessary in the main article. That starts clearing the main article for development.
BTW, you made 10 edits there today. I find an easier approach is to copy the text to a word document, do and undo all the changes I like, then paste it back and publish. It saves on undoing changes, and makes it easier for others to get a handle on what you're doing.
Phlan received a lot of attention in 5th-edition adventures recently, which User:Unknown user 11 created pages for the NPCs of. That's where Madam Freona's Tea Kettle came from.
Phlan was one of the first places I discovered in the Realms, through the Pool of Radiance novels, so I'm looking forward to exploring it more fully through this project of yours.

Ulthar IEdit

I made a mistake with the page name of two character, I create the page Ulthar but after I put inside all info about Urmas NPC, so I went to change Ulthar's page name with Urmas; after I tried to create a new Ulthar page but the system block me and said it's need an administrator to solve the matter. I create Ulthar I as page and need only to cancel the "I" from the page name thank and sorry for the mistake (Unknown user 11 (talk) 14:16, January 28, 2016 (UTC))

User 11, I fixed the page for you... there was already a Ulthar page... So I named that page the Darkhorn and fixed the stone giant page to Ulthar :) - Darkwynters (talk) 22:57, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

thank Unknown user 11 (talk) 23:25, January 28, 2016 (UTC)

Air in DidYouKnow? Edit

Hello! I have created the article air to replace the redirect this week. Might it be fitting and possible to include it in the Realmslore on the Main Page? (I also plan for fire and water in the forseeable future). Thanks for considering it. Daranios (talk) 13:08, January 31, 2016 (UTC)

Cool. Template:DidYouKnow/current should be unblocked, so see if you can add one of your own. Otherwise, I'll work on it when I get a chance. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:27, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
I checked and unfortunately it is blocked to me. So It would be nice if you could do it. Thanks a lot! Daranios (talk) 13:52, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
It's specifically marked as unblocked, but I guess the block on the Main Page cascades down to it. Okay, I'll do it next. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:53, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
Done. Let me know if you have something more interesting to say about it. :) — BadCatMan (talk) 14:01, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, "cascading" option is what it says as reason for the protection. I like the air sentence :-). Daranios (talk) 19:04, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
And fire is done. Daranios (talk) 19:26, February 3, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, I'll note it for next week. — BadCatMan (talk) 10:46, February 4, 2016 (UTC)
Finished the round with water.:-) Daranios (talk) 12:20, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
Great! I'll add it to the list. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:28, February 13, 2016 (UTC)

Game screenshots Edit

Hey there, I noticed you deleted a screenshot of Cespenar from Baldur's Gate II. Are game screenshots a faux pas on this wiki? I was thinking of replacing a few of the low-quality infobox images from the BG series with crisp versions, but if such things are frowned upon I'll focus my efforts elsewhere. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 11:45, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Oh no, screenshots are accepted, I've put up a few myself. I just felt it was a rather poor image: you could barely see the imp, even at full size, and I felt the image of the player's party, game interface, and conversation window were unnecessary. We generally prefer clear images that focus on their topics, and don't show unnecessary game information (no rules, interface, etc.) that lift the reader out of the wiki experience. We still have some wonky images around, so I'd like to see some improved images.
Have a look at Ilbratha, History of the Vast, and quiver of plenty for examples of how I've used BG screenshots. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:56, February 19, 2016 (UTC)
Noted. Thanks for the swift response. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 11:59, February 19, 2016 (UTC)

Indexes and appendicesEdit

I couldn't find an answer to this in your Manual of Style, so here goes. Should the wiki maintain indexes on games, such as Neverwinter? It could be useful, but could also get rather large and unnavigable (although, some sort of collapsible table could be employed). Furthermore, should the Appearances sections of appendices be broken up by media type? --Ir'revrykal (talk) 06:35, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

I haven't gotten up to this in the MoS yet, but I'm glad people are looking at it. :)
I'm in favour of indexing games, treating games like any other source and adding all that can be added (my wiki philosophy is inclusive and completist). As you say, size issues can be handled. The question is having an editor willing to do the work: it someone's willing, then all good; if no one is, I wouldn't call for it. The Neverwinter MMO is a different beast though, as it would be ever expanding with game updates. So, nice to have, but not a must-have.
Generally, I'm in favour of breaking up Appearances by media type: it helps to know which is a novel, which is a sourcebook, which is a non-canon game, etc. I like the following format, which avoids excessive section headings:
* ''[[The Fat Gnome Trilogy]]''
** ''[[Gnomeland]]''

* Campaign Setting Nth Edition
to give:
  • Campaign Setting Nth Edition
Not all pages do this, and it's a bit needless if there's only one or two entries. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:17, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
That clears up quite a bit. I'll begin a Neverwinter index—a slightly daunting task for one person, but my hope is that if people see there's a framework in place, they'll be more inclined to add to it. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 08:23, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, good luck! And thanks for getting involved! — BadCatMan (talk) 08:37, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

History of Spells and Monsters and Such Edit

So, I thought of starting a forum post on this, but since you are the one doing it, I figure I'll bring it up here first. In your awesome expansions of articles—which I quite enjoy reading—with information from the comics, you often throw some tidbits into History sections. For example, you note that such-and-such a spell was used by someone in the comics to do such-and-such.

To me, it seems like this would fall more under some kind of Notable Uses section, just like we have Notable Instances of Foo for other article types, such as races or classes. I feel that History should be reserved for the actual history of the spell, such as who invented it, its reputation through various time periods, ways it changed through all the "cataclysmic events that changed magic" (*cough*, editions, *cough*), etc.

Likewise, in, e.g., the Kenku article that includes details of specific kenkus doing their thing. I would expect the History section here to be about the history of the kenku race as a whole. The whole paragraph there, IMO, should simply be placed under the heading of Notable Kenkus, even though they are not singled out as individuals.

I hope my points make sense and are not to nit-picky.

~ Lhynard (talk) 21:58, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

Not at all. I was dissatisfied with some of my additions, but didn't think of "Notable Xs". I've been adding stuff mostly for the sake of adding content (context for images, and such) and completism, but only cases I felt were particular significant or interesting (e.g., a clever use of pyrotechnics on the fire elemental, but not a mundane use of magic missile).
But I'm ambivalent on dividing the existing History sections. I feel a small History can include more minor appearances of the subject: these give context or historical significance that might otherwise be lacking. A history of the kenku race is currently lacking. OTOH, a lengthy history on, say, orcs in Faerun shouldn't include minor orc characters as would appear in a smaller article. In that case, historical context is already provided by the actual history. I'm not a fan of very short sections anyway.
So, I agree, but I would only divide if it gets long and unwieldy.
BTW, my ISP went out Australia-wide, so my internet access has been poor today and may continue to be crap for some time. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:13, March 17, 2016 (UTC)

Current Clack Edit

Are you looking for creative additions for what users are working on for the "Current Clack" weekly update? If so, how about: "Artemaz is visiting with the Dalai Lama, unraveling some of the mysteries of the Hidden Kingdom of Ra-Khati." – User:Artemaz

You're really forcing me to step up my game here. :) Okay, will do. — BadCatMan (talk) 04:33, April 17, 2016 (UTC)

Did you know: Southeast ZakharaEdit

Hi! It's nice that southeast Zakhara gets its mention in DidYouKnow, but to be completely accurate, the Steaming Isles and Sahu are in the Crowded Sea but not in southeast Zakhara, only bordering it. There are a number of islands there, but only the two large ones, Harab and Bariya, are named. Daranios (talk) 14:54, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

Aww, that's much less interesting. Okay, I'll try correct it. — BadCatMan (talk) 00:50, April 17, 2016 (UTC)


Many thanks for your patience and apologies for my lack of comouter skills. I didnt realise that the page was viewed by people, and saw it more of draft format rather than the finished product. Im gonna clean up the pages that you guys havnt already dealt with, and looking forward to expanding the website

I have to apologise again. I didnt fully undestand the fromat procedures which combined with ny thinking it wasnt posted for peolpe to view, at least until finished. My skill with computers isnt great so that was another factor. Give me a week or so and i'll clean up the work, particulary the ancestor mound page to which i'll add the relevant mounds of the tribes. – User:Snorogh

Thanks for getting back to us to talk it over. Okay, that's fine. If you want to make draft pages, consider putting them in your own user space, that is, pages branched off your user page as User:Snorogh. For example, User:Snorogh/Draft or User:Snorogh/Zokan Thunderer. There, when they're ready, we can move them to the main article space.
So, we'll leave the others tagged as they are and you can work on cleaning up and expanding them. Have a look at other articles, particularly those we feature on the Main Page as Featured Articles, Realmslore, or in Current Clack, to see how they do things. You might also peruse our Help pages and Policies, and my incomplete Manual of Style. And if you have any questions, just ask one of us admins or regular editors. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:01, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
Oh, and when posting messages on these Talk pages, please end with four tildes, ~~~~, to make a signature, so it's clear who you are. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:02, April 17, 2016 (UTC)

Hi Edit

Hi, and thanks for the welcome. I happen to have the 4e manuals and some other manuals about dragons and their kin (my favorite creatures of D&D), and I want to help with what I can in those themes.

And yes, those edits... as you can see with the many "minor editions" my english isn't perfect yet, and it will be good idea that someone check the article later for grammar and stuff. (Zeromaru X 06:39, April 17, 2016 (UTC))

On canon and twitter Edit

I have been reading the Canon article, and it says anything that Ed says is canon until it's contradicted by something published in official materials, as those take precedence. Can we use a tweet from Ed as a source for something? --Zeromaru X 05:36, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I wouldn't trust a tweet, but given our current rules, I can't say why not, as we've allowed for everything else. We've normally just taken his responses at the Candlekeep forum. As long as the tweet comes from the genuine Ed Greenwood, doesn't get deleted, and can be linked to using {{Cite web}}, it should be okay. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:51, April 19, 2016 (UTC)


Hey, I erroneously included the Mercenaries category on Grash Crackbacker's article. The Realmslore entry should be corrected as well. I would do it, but the page is protected. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 16:03, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

Done. — BadCatMan (talk) 16:13, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

Clan Article Titles Edit

Hello there! I wanted to rename (without redirect) a couple of sub-categories listed here and thus I was looking for the wiki's move proposal template which I didn't manage to find. So I am wondering which template would be appropriate to use instead.

Thanks! - Viktoria Landers (talk) 12:51, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome aboard. There's a couple of points. First, I don't think we have a move proposal template. Second, users may rename pages if it's justified, but only admins can move a page without leaving a redirect. If a redirect is left behind but should be deleted, then you can place a {{Deletion}} tag on it.
But finally, categories cannot be renamed anyway, as they're formed by the pages with Category links on them. So, you would need to go to each page in the category, and update the categories to the new category. Then you make a new category page for the new category, and place a Deletion tag on the old, empty category. If you follow all that. :)
But how and why did you want to change the categories, and which ones did you want to change? — BadCatMan (talk) 13:10, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
Aha I see. Well, in the category I linked you before I want to rename the sub-categories Melairkyn and Dolvak Clan to Clan Melairkyn and Clan Dolvak respectively. The reason is for those categories to follow the established naming convention. Thanks again. - Viktoria Landers (talk) 19:06, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks for tackling that. We've discussed this issue before, for dwarf clans, drow houses, and noble families, but it didn't go anywhere as we weren't sure what the official names should be in each case. That is, is "Battlehammer", "Clan Battlehammer", or "the Battlehammer clan" the most correct name? Have you found something in the sourcebooks about this, or were you just making them consistent?
In any case, personally, I feel article titles should be only the name for the sake of simplicity. It's easier and more flexible to link to just "Battlehammer", so "Battlehammer", "Clan Battlehammer", and "the Battlehammer clan" are all possible without a lot of redirects. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:10, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
No I didn't find anything, my reasoning was the established convention set by the vast majority of pages and categories which use the "Clan Battlehammer" style of naming. Personally I don't feel strongly for either option so I would leave the decision to you guys. Viktoria Landers (talk) 21:48, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
I, for one appreciate, consistency, so having them all start with "Clan" is better, even if we eventually change them all to not have "Clan". BatCat, can we use a bot to convert all of the titles and categories in one fell swoop? ~ Lhynard (talk) 21:56, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
That's fine. We should have a proper forum discussion about it some day.
I can have the bot change categories (that is, category links on pages), but it can't rename pages. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:45, April 30, 2016 (UTC)

1E Characters Edit

I signaled an objection made from User:Artemaz about NPC from Swords of the Daimyo and my answer: – Unknown user 11

Don't forget to make all of these characters from Swords of the Daimyo with 1E classes and not 2E classes. 2E was not released until 1989 and Swords of the Daimyo was released in 1986. Artemaz (talk) 13:08, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

I had this doubt before starting but nobody minus you corrected me. Plus I saw that also Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms module was classified as 1th sourcebook but all the pages in the wiki had a 2th classes. I think when need a clarification about from User:BadCatMan or an other administrators(Unknown user 11 (talk) 13:14, May 5, 2016 (UTC))
I wait for a clarification foe the eventual change (Unknown user 11 (talk) 13:23, May 5, 2016 (UTC))
I know next to nothing about 1st edition and 2nd edition and the divide, so I'm not the one to ask. When I made my articles, I assumed Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms is 2e, as it's labeled "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons", but that's only a guess on my part. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:34, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

If until now we all used 2th I was for continue this way (Unknown user 11 (talk) 14:04, May 5, 2016 (UTC))

Why change Roben to 1th?? from the forum talks with User:Hashimashadoo I understood was not necessary (Unknown user 11 (talk) 09:52, May 6, 2016 (UTC))

Plus I believed that change to 1th, a move not more need, some oriental pages will confuse people that read the wiki (Unknown user 11 (talk) 10:06, May 6, 2016 (UTC))

I think you might have misunderstood Hash's statement. I'll answer this at the forum thread. — BadCatMan (talk) 10:28, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

The only clear statement was that kara-tur sourcebook and adventures after Ronin Challenge were ALL 2th edition. Before Hash was no so clear. I understood that a change to 1th was unnecessary. Plus repeat I believe was confusing have samurai of BOTH 1th and 2th edition. (Unknown user 11 (talk) 10:39, May 6, 2016 (UTC))

Ok I not totally agree but my next PNC from Swords of the Daimyo I put in 1th, If you can use the your bot to change all my previously pages was better – Unknown user 11

Thanks, I'll work on the bot later. But please have a look at the Swords of the Daimyo page: it's a very early book, published in 1986, so it's well before 2nd edition was introduced (1989). It's not labelled as 2nd edition either. It's very clearly a "1e" book, just as that page is categorised.

BTW, the ordinal numbers in English are abbreviated as 1st (first), 2nd (second), 3rd (third), and then 4th (fourth), 5th (fifth) and so on. Only the numbers 4 onward use "th".

Also, don't forget to sign your posts with ~~~~. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:22, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I'm running the UnseenServantBot over your recent articles now. UnseenServantBot (talk) 12:45, May 6, 2016 (UTC)


Hi i've been looking into reworking the couple of entries i've made using the format for the site and i hate to say it but my computer skills aren't up to the job,which combined with time becoming an issue as work has picked up in the last couple of weeks, leaves me a bit short.

I dislike to leave things half finished and it may seem a bit of a cop out but i was kinda hoping that someone could maybe edit the work thats left, a piece on ancestral mounds and an enrty for Elrem the Wise.

I love the site, and will continue to browse through, the Realms allways was my favorite setting and i find the wealth of information brilliantSnorogh (talk) 20:55, May 5, 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for letting me know. I or someone else will go back and tidy up the pages later. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:40, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

the Way (Koryo) Edit

I noticed among the change to 1th that Korax (shukenja) was a follower of the Way, was the same Way of Enlightenment worshipped both in Kozakura and Shou Lung???

No, the Way of Enlightenment is actually the Kozakuran version of the Path of Enlightenment, or the Path. The Way and The Path/Way of Enlightenment are different religions, based on aspects of real-world Confucianism and Buddhism, but with a lot of cross-overs, confused names, and mismatches so they don't fully fit the real-world counterparts. Religion is very tricky in Kara-Tur. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:32, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I know that in real life Korea always had a peculiar style, so I suppose was also for Koryo, for this I ask. I have two PNC, (and probably more arrived) followers of the Way of Enlightenment and I was wondering to use your Category:Followers of the Way, but the answer was clear no. Maybe later I create the right category. (Unknown user 11 (talk) 12:14, May 6, 2016 (UTC))

I read your last update about Koryo and your note about the war with Kozakura, for what I read about Kozakura I found no clue about an ongoing war with other countries, they were busy plotting each others. My sensation about was that some kozakuran daimyo acting independently attack Koryo (this can explain why the war involved ONE city in Koryo). Hope this can help you about Koryo's history (Unknown user 11 (talk) 09:46, May 27, 2016 (UTC))

Thanks. I've skimmed the Kozakura material, but didn't read it too closely. I couldn't find a hint of the war either. The closest might be the unidentified invaders of the island of Kanshu, but they could be anyone. It's a problem with the Kara-Tur setting: each chapter is written by a different author, and they set things up without really telling each other to follow up on it.
I have couple of ideas about this one-sided war. In addition to your rogue daimyo, the "Kozakurans" could be pirates or a ninja group, or they could be survivors from a war centuries ago hiding out in the Karak fortress. My favourite idea is that the old Sillan Empire was like North Korea, with a mad king telling his people they're surrounded by enemies, when it's not like that at all. These "Kozakuran invaders" might not be Kozakurans at all. That's all wild speculation and homebrew lore though. — BadCatMan (talk) 10:11, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

New Categories Edit

Is there a way to make new categories instantly auto-type when I'm trying to add them to character pages? For example, I'm adding a bunch of new "Locations of" and "Inhabitants of" categories to characters from Huzuz, but I have to manually type them out on the source edit page. Older categories seem to pop right up when you begin typing the name. Artemaz (talk) 12:43, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

You only get auto-suggest if the category page has already been made. It won't work for an unmade category, as the name is not in the system. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:45, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
The categories I'm adding exist but have just been made within the last day or so. Is there a time period that needs to pass before they begin to auto-suggest? Artemaz (talk) 13:10, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't think I've ever noticed the delay, but I usually make my categories afterward (if at all...). I've encountered the delay with other things, but I don't think it's ever been more than a few hours. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:24, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
Yes, there is a delay before they begin to auto-suggest. ~ Lhynard (talk) 16:17, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

Title Case?Edit

I noticed you changed a "See Also" to "See also". I thought we had a consensus that we liked title case over sentence case in headings (after I had already gone through and changed all the "Standard sections" in all the infobox templates to sentence case). What's the verdict? I just want to be consistent and reduce your copy-edit time. —Moviesign (talk) 14:43, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

Had we? I thought we kind of trailed off. :) I forget where we even talked about it. Anyway, it was force-of-habit.
One thing I'll note is that if I let the bot do its own thing in AutoWikiBrowser, it will change section headings to sentence case. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:59, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
It was in Forum:Manual of Style and we had 3 votes for and 1 against—yes, it trailed off; we need more votes. I will try to stick with the Manual of Style until something changes.
PS, were you aware that your talk page is a member of Category:Followers of the Way? :) —Moviesign (talk) 16:15, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
I am now. :) — BadCatMan (talk) 11:52, May 22, 2016 (UTC)


Hi thanks for the welcome message! Love your awesome work and since i have been using this database for soo much time i will help with some editing. im still noob with wikia but i understand the mechanism on how to do edit pages, thanks to your message i learnt how to add a reference! thanks! and send me more tips please to make it quicker :) Thanks a lot. An Italian DM (User:ItalianDM)

I'm glad to hear it, but please make sure you include a reference with anything you add, such as what you added to Nesmé. What was the source for that? — BadCatMan (talk) 13:36, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

it's silver marches p.23 im trying to add the reference but cannot find the correct syntax :(

Wanese Edit

I left a comment here, but I don't think talk pages for categories show up in the recent edits feed: Category talk:Wanese ~ Lhynard (talk) 15:58, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

I think I just missed it, I've been busy and sick. Anyway, I responded. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:52, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

Bot Requests Edit

  • Replace all occurrences of <references/> and <references /> with {{Refs}}Lhynard

What? Who said that? :p I'll alright, I'll see what I can do. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:26, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, there's no good way to get a list of all pages on the wiki to search through. Does anyone have the wiki-fu to generate a list of all the pages that use these? The bot can get all links off a page or I can copy a plain list into it. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:44, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
I'll see if I can come up with something useful. —Moviesign (talk) 12:25, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
Here's how to get the bot to access all pages: From the Source: drop-down, choose Special page. Click Make list and a dialog box will open. In this box, choose Source: All pages (no redirects) and the Main: namespace, then click OK. In a few seconds, the list of pages will be populated with 19,386 pages (or however many we have at the time you do this). —Moviesign (talk) 16:48, July 16, 2016 (UTC)
That works great! Thanks! I'll start the bot off now. — BadCatMan (talk) 02:31, July 17, 2016 (UTC)
And a few hundred pages and few hours later, it's done! — BadCatMan (talk) 05:42, July 17, 2016 (UTC)
…As my e-mail Inbox informs me. Thanks! ~ Lhynard (talk) 05:48, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Deletion requestEdit

Dear BadCatMan,

I am Saya222, first thank you for the advice you've sent me regarding editing style.

And I have to apologize for a trouble I've caused. I created a page in order to cite a book that already existed.

This is a complete oversight on my side. I'm sorry.

I've seen your name under the administrators, is it possible for you delete the site linked above?

Again my apologies


Hi, thanks for your response. I've deleted the incorrect cite page. Feel free to ask if you have any other questions or problems. — BadCatMan (talk) 15:47, July 16, 2016 (UTC)

Dear BadCatMan,

thank you for deleting my mistake.

Best regards


Dear BadCatMan,

thank you for replying to the talk and your suggestions (e.g. not to rush it), I will follow these. I'm sorry for the trouble I surely caused here.

I have a question about the edit number. I use the preview button, so I'm surprised myself by the number. The way I edit is generally, clicking on "edit" and than to Edit Source for because I found it easier to write references and so on. I remember that "save page" needs to be clicked to get back to the edit page which serves also as a preview, does this count as one edit? If yes, I will change this habit immediately.

Also thank you for the "Word" suggestion. Stupid as it may sound, it hasn't occurred to me. I will do it.

Again thank you and my apologies

Best Regards


Yes, the Save Page or Publish buttons (depending on skin and editor) will save whatever changes you made.
By the way, you can sign on your posts with four tildes, ~~~~, which will produce your name and date. You can adjust your default signature in Preferences. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:29, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Questions about rulesEdit

Dear BadCatMan,

I'm Saya222 and I have a question about the rules. I apologize for it'll be lengthy.

You wrote me once that I have to keep out crunch from the articles. I edited yesterday the article Jaezred Chaulssin. After rereading the last one today, I became unsure whether the section "Magic and Skills" has too much of crunch as does then the part about the members.

The policy state for example that for example, spell names can appear. But if the section is to describe that the spell selection has tendency for versatility, should there be a description in how far or should it be left out? The same goes for magic items, should there be a description why and in how far they are useful or should it be left out?

Another question is about when to italicize. I looked up the Nimor article to look for conventions whether magic item names are to be italicized like spell names and found that there is no consistent convention (the policy only talks about spell names), so I left them not italicized, should this be changed?

Throughout, I hope I haven't caused copyright problems.

I'm sorry for the lengthiness and thank you in advance for reading and answering.

Best Regards

Saya222 Saya222 (talk) 12:34, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

No worries, these are good questions.
For the first question, your "Magic and Skills" and "Members" section looks just fine for the issue of crunch: there's no talk of dice, DCs, or whatever. It only mentions what they can do, and describes it rather than stats it. We do allow some mentions of +1, +2, etc., for the sake of comparison, as a +1 longsword is a very different thing from a +5 longsword. Don't forget you can also link to spells, items, and magical enchantments, as we have pages for most.
I'm not quite sure what you mean in the second question. Do you mean they vary their spells? That's probably fine. Is it just their choice of spells, or do they have a special ability?
As for how much you describe, consider only what is relevant or useful to the article. For example, if the Jaezred Chaulssin simply use the spell shadow evocation, then the Jaezred Chaulssin article only needs to link to it and move on. A reader interested in that spell can go to the shadow evocation page and read all about it. The spell details probably won't tell us much about the Jaezred Chaulssin themselves, so they don't need to be discussed on the Jaezred Chaulssin page. However, if the Jaezred Chaulssin do make special use of shadow evocation, for a ritual or special tactic, or if it was important in a battle or something, then it would be appropriate to discuss the relevant spell details, that is, those that apply to the Jaezred Chaulssin. In general, always try to focus the writing on the topic of the article, or what's vital for understanding it.
Thirdly, for magic items, follow the convention in the sourcebook. Generally, magic items are italicized, so we italicize them here too. Mundane items aren't italicized, and some artifacts and plain magical items sometimes aren't italicized either. The Nimor Imphraezl hasn't been checked, so the non-italicized magic items are just an error.
I hoped that answered your questions. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:05, July 31, 2016 (UTC)
Dear BadCatMan,
thank you for the quick answer, it clarified a lot.
I'm sorry that part of my question wasn't well written for understanding, indeed without context it is not possible to understand it. The observation was that if one looks at the Jaezred Chaulssin favorite spell list, they choose spells which have different options at default like shadowgloom, spells that can be converted to other spells like shadow evocation or spells like simulacrum, creating an ice doll that can be commanded for just about anything, in short they had a tendency to choose spells that gave them much freedom and versatility in relation to the number of spells. I've picked the spells and gave a quick explanation why they are useful for what they are doing or wherein lies the versatility that was named a sentence earlier. My question was whether this is valid.
Also thank you for correcting mistakes and putting speculation mark on what I've written.
Best Regards and thank you again
Saya222 (talk) 16:53, July 31, 2016 (UTC)
Okay, if they prepare a lot of that kind of spell, I think that would be fair to mention. You make it a footnote (discussing the flexibility from an out-of-universe point-of-view in the Appendix) or mark it as {{Speculation}} in the text of the article. You can look at Cognition thief to see how I used a footnote to discuss a rules issue. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:55, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
Dear BadCatMan,
thank you for the advise, I've done it.
Thank you again
Best Reagrds

Article Requests Edit

Any chance you can write up articles for Bloodforge Wars and Bloodforge? Since your recent work on the Blood & Magic game, these have jumped way to the top of the list of wanted articles. ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:51, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, these can be rather nebulous topics: five different sources each give somewhat different accounts or else make vague but important allusions. I was planning to start on the specific (individual sources and local topics) and work my way up and out. I'm also working away from the Utter East for a while. :) Anyway, I've redirected Bloodforge Wars to Utter_East#The_Bloodforge_Wars, so there's a start that'll knock off one from the wanted list. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:50, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough. Thanks! ~ Lhynard (talk) 12:08, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Asking for name changeEdit

Dear BadCatMan,

I'm sorry but may I ask for in total three name changes.

The reason that I made the mistake of writing the following three page names' second parts with capital letters. The pages are Elf Disguise, Soul Charge and Vhaeraun's Nightshield.

I'm sorry for causing trouble for you

Best Regards

Saya222 Saya222 (talk) 10:37, August 16, 2016 (UTC)

No worries, it's done. You can rename a page yourself: you should have access to a Move button, which does the same thing but doesn't delete the original page name. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:09, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Dear BadCatMan,
thank you for telling me it. I found it.
Best Regards and thank you again
P.S. thank you for the advice, you've written at the correction of my entries.

Lord's of Waterdeep ContinuiutyEdit

Hi BadCatMan - I left this message on the talk page for the Lords of Waterdeep. No one has replied so I was wondering if you could help or tell me which administrator would best be able to help me? Thank you for any input you can give me. (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 22:23, September 17, 2016 (UTC))

  • My messege - Continuity

Are all of the Lords as of 1479 correct - Kyriani is a ghost in blackstaff tower according to Blackstaff Tower, and Death Masks characters like Laeral and Mirt act like Piergeiron the Paladinson and Durnan are dead? Also since Death Masks placement is the Year of the Scarlet Witch which is 1491 should a new list be made for that point in time and those who are dead be moved to the deceased list (perhaps a secondary deceased list could be made for the Lord's who were assasinated during the Death Masks novel(TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 01:49, September 14, 2016 (UTC))

    • Also in 1479 DR, Dagult Neverember was still the Open Lord (acording to Blackstaff Tower (novel). Laeral did not become the Open Lord until at least after the events of The Herald which is set in 1487 DR. (TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 17:07, September 24, 2016 (UTC))
I'm sorry, I didn't get a chance to respond earlier, and it eventually slipped my mind. I'm afraid I don't know much about the Lords of Waterdeep, much less how they are in 4th edition, so I don't think I can help you. — BadCatMan (talk) 00:59, September 25, 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Well, I will try to work on the page and provide citations when I can to bring it up to date.(TeliomBrainFreeze (talk) 19:36, September 25, 2016 (UTC))

Trolling how? Edit

I am tired of anti-Semites calling Jews trolls merely because we support Trump. Just look at that asshat Erik Scott de Bie's recent Twitter feed. I used to like his novels and short stories, but now I fucking hate his guts and want him dead. He is a racist piece of shit, calling me a "white supremacist" and an " alt-right troll" merely for complaining that he stop insulting Trump supporters. How is telling the truth about this racist bastard "trolling" or " harassment"? He is the one doing the trolling.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and see nothing of the kind on de Bie's twitter. Regardless, your personal dispute with him and political differences are completely irrelevant to the Forgotten Realms, to his work, or to the wiki. Please don't take the argument here.
Since you're no longer actually active here and have abused your admin powers for this, I've removed your admin status. I've also blocked you a few days to cool off and think about this. — BadCatMan (talk) 04:48, September 22, 2016 (UTC)
I've come to believe that the User:JarlaxleArtemis account also belongs to Quinsareth so I'm pre-emptively banning it before it can be used. -hashtalk 04:33, September 25, 2016 (UTC)
Wow, that's ten years old. Alright, thanks. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:56, September 25, 2016 (UTC)

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